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Hi everyone, this is your host Chadish. I hope you are all doing well. In this episode of Timeless Catalyst, I'm hosting Thomas J. Sandrin. He has worked in the luxury brand industry for almost 16 years. He founded the watchdna.com, a community around the watch enthusiasts, and today he is going to take us through his journey and we will talk about the watch collection, watch trends, and everything about watches. Let's see what he has to say. Thomas, welcome to this episode. Can we get to know you more, please? Sure, uh, my name is Thomas J. Sandrian. I'm originally from Paris. Um, I came in Canada 19 years ago. My wife's Canadian from Ottawa, actually. So I came here 19 years ago. Proud father of two. Uh I'm very uh happy uh uh to be in the industry that I love for the last 16 years. Uh I was the brand manager of uh luxury uh Swiss brand, Hamilton with the Swash Group for 12 years, which I love every day. Uh but then uh some personal uh um uh episode happened in my life, and then just before COVID, I decided to go back to school. I did a master in business, and the first year uh I did a big study of the industry, uh looking at the opportunities and the challenges, and then I kind of tried, uh decided to throw the uh the dice. I was uh 39 at the time, a few years, three and a half years ago, and I decided to launch my business. I want to take you back to 16 years ago. Yeah, uh, what was the decision that motivated you to join the watch industry? So, to be honest, so when I came to Canada, I came here as a new immigrant. So my first job was actually going door to door, knocking on people's doors, selling home services, Rogers home services. I did that for two years until I get my paper. Um and I then I have a colleague that launched a company that was distributing alcohol. So I went from you know the services to the alcohol business. And then after two years of doing that, and I have a background a little bit in uh in uh in you know being a social person, being active. Uh my parents own restaurants and bars back in Paris. Uh so I I always love to connect with people. And at the time I was getting engaged with my wife, uh, and it was just time for me to change uh to have a new position. And to be honest, uh very funny story actually. Um, when I apply for the position that I hold with Hamilton, uh, I actually first applied for the position. Um but the nobody called me. And then two, three weeks after, I saw a similar position for the same company but as an assistant. And then what I did at the time is I I hired somebody to help me redo my resume. And then when I apply for this assistant position, the HR of the company of Swordhood Canada at the time, uh, reach out to me and saying, Hey Tomorrow, we just noticed your resume for the assistant position, but we saw that you have all the experience needed and you've uh bilingual because obviously Quebec is a big, you know, very important for the industry, especially in Canada. Uh and so she was like, with your experience and you know your personality, will you be interesting at the other position which I applied before that they never call me? So then she's like, okay, just change your resume and then come for an interview. And so that's how I started. Is literally by having somebody that trusted, uh trusted me, or at least give me a chance. Coming back to you know, post-COVID period, you started the watch DNA, a community around the watch industry. Can you just uh talk a bit more about the community? Sure, sure, sure. So so basically, one thing that I did during my study is as I mentioned, I spoke to more than a thousand people. Uh, I spoke to retailers, I spoke to brands, but I also spoke to end consumers. And something that we realize is that there is a lot of platforms out there that talk about watches, and it's great. And honestly, I follow a lot of them. But a lot of them actually uh will write beautiful articles, tell beautiful things, but in the end, they will have a buy now button or they will have a uh a direction to buy the product somewhere. So a lot of people, when I talk to, they say, okay, this is great. I'm learning this amazing time, you know, uh stories about timepieces, uh specific uh specific model. But in the end, is it legit when I'm right reading, or is it something that you try to sell me a product? And so the whole idea of watch DNA was really to create a platform that is genuine, that basically uh what we try to do is we try to become uh the directory of all the watch brands available on the market and all the authorized retailers. And so it's obviously a mission, it's a take time, but it's really something that I believe uh is basically by educating people, entertaining them, and then making connecting them with brands or with the retailers. That's kind of the mission of the watch DNA. So coming back on the community aspect, something that is important for me is there's a lot of people that love watches. Some of them are not experts. I will something that I do, as I mentioned, is even though I'm in the industry for a long time, I don't want to call myself I don't believe I'm an expert because I believe that there's in any topics, there's always somebody that knows more than you, and then you can always learn something. And so, and so I this really aspect of watch DNA is to have so educating people, entertaining them, putting connecting them, and also having a platform for anybody that like watches to submit uh an article idea, uh feature, you know, re being reposted on social media. Something that I'm very, very uh proud of is basically anytime that there's somebody on Instagram, for example, that like watches, that posts watches, I would love for them to reach out to us and we'll be more than happy to add them first on our on our on our site as the community member, but also we have a private watch DNA community chat on Instagram, and anytime that one of us uh posts like something, we just share the love with each other, and that's very, very cool. And so the idea is really this aspect of sharing uh the passion, the love of the watches. But for me, and that might be a next question for you, but for me it's not about the pro the the object, for me is about the story behind for me is about the the the the the memory of a product that somebody purchased, maybe because they got their first baby was born or they finished school, or like for example, I have a I have a watch that is I bought it when I graduated, uh, but it's in the safe and it will get out sometimes, you know, just to lack ahead. But realistically, it's for my son's when he's graduating for uh from his school. So that's kind of the idea for me. It's really not about the actual object, it's more about the story behind and the people behind as well. That's for the community. Actually, Thomas, the stories are really important. I kind of explained you my story when I started the watch collection. Uh actually, uh, it was because of a watch that my uh grandmother uh bought me when I started the university as kind of you know gift. She was like, Oh, you are a grown man now and you need to be mindful about your time. And she purchased a citizen watch for me. It's a quartz watch, and it was literally sitting idle. So this is how it kind of you know triggered me for this. Since you mentioned the stories, is there any story that kind of like affected you so far? It can be about a watch brand or someone's you know story about a particular watch. So I have a little story that is actually very fresh in my mind. Um so being originally from France, I mentioned, uh I try to go as often as I can visit my parents, my brother, my parents that everybody lived there. Um, and back in November, I actually went to visit my parents by myself. It's the first time that I didn't bring the whole family with me. I just wanted to spend a week with my parents. My mom is a little bit older. My parents are a little bit older, my mom is a little bit sick, so I just wanted to spend quality time with them. And literally, and my parents love to move. They for the last 20 years they moved to like 20 different house condos, and you know, anyway, uh that's what they like to do. But now they try to sell a little bit, and so they move to a new place. And then the new place, I basically was there for a week and I was, you know, looking at boxes and oh, this is some drawing that I had when I was in school, you know. Parents, right? They keep I keep my my my thing for my kids for them to have. And then I go to my dad's office and he has this box. So I open this box and he has this safe, and I'm like, oh, that's the same, but the safe is un is unlocked. So I open and there's a watch there. I'm like, oh, okay. I look at the watch and I was like, so I went to see my dad. I'm like, hey dad, what is this watch for? He's like, oh, wow, you found it. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, oh, it's been like five, ten years I didn't see this watch. I'm like, what do you mean? It was in your safe. He's like, oh, you know, I moved so much, you know. And I was like, tell me about it. It's like, so this watch, my mom, so my grandma gave it to my dad when he turned 18. It's like a French brand. And and he was like, Yeah, I don't know, out of the blue, she just offered me this watch. And then so I look at, you know, and my dad was like, Oh, if you want. Um, and sorry, I'm coming back, but yeah, so that was uh sorry, I'm I'm emotionless, right? And so basically um he's like, Oh yes, my mom gave it to me when I was 18, so my grandma, and then but the watch was not working because it's been a long time. So I was like, Oh, what about if I take it with me and I bring it to a watchmaker that I you know my network to fix it? And he's like, Yeah, for sure, no problem. So, you know, so but he's like, make sure you bring it back to me next time. I'm like, I will, I will. But so that's coming back to the story. It's like literally, it's like 18, my dad is 73, and you know, it's it's it's uh it's basically a way to come back in memory line and and for me to be emotional about a watch that my dad's thinking of, you know, has. By the way, what was the brand of the watch? The brand is a lip. Uh, it's a French brand that was uh in uh long time ago, uh, you know, one of the brands in France. And I heard I didn't really look a lot about it, but I heard that he was the business went maybe a little bit down at one point, but now he got back. And actually, when I was in stores in November, I was looking for it and I saw it in the store now. So I'm very happy. And hopefully I can connect with them. Thomas, how do you see the Canadian watch industry uh for this year and the you know upcoming years? So something that I enjoy is I enjoy sometimes going uh to look at you know official stats, stat Canada uh export import exports from Swiss from the Swiss industry and things like that. Um so and even inside, you know, inter only businesses come talking with brands because you know, part of my agency, I work with a lot of brands as well. Um, so we saw that last year was a little bit deep, obviously. So you had the you had this uh surprisingly, uh business was doing good for many, many years. It was growing, and then COVID hit. You had a little bit of a gap uh the first year, but then it went very, very strong. It was kind of like a tsunami effect, it went very, very strong. And then we saw the value of the big watches, the big brands, the collectors, you know, people. Um last year was a little bit slower. Um, but uh as I mentioned earlier, uh for me, watches is really uh a product, is uh is more than a product. And so I believe that even though you know uh there is some uncertainty, you know, like for everywhere and in all in our society, uh I believe that there will always be people that getting married, always be people getting engaged, always being young babies born. There is always occasion, and for those occasions, there will always be a lot of people are looking for a specific product, object to to have a memory, to build a memory. So I'm not worried about that. And something that I think uh will go as well is that, and we saw a little bit of a wave of brand as well, uh having different uh different uh ways of distribution. Uh, you know, for many, many years you the brands were distributed in stores, and then slowly brands were opening their own corporate stores as well. I think the future will be a balance between both because I believe that a lot of people like you and I, uh I'm sure you know we all first there something in the in a jewelry that I love is really this aspect of uh as you mentioned earlier, community but also uh trust. And and I believe that when that's why I love watch DNA and I love having creating slowly a directory of authorized retailers because for me it's not just about promoting the brand, it's also promoting the people behind the people that actually build a relationship. Because you know, if you have um if you have a if you have each occasion, you you the first time you will try to find somebody. Maybe you will try to find the best deal, and maybe sometimes you will try to find best beer. But realistically, there is a lot of jewelers out there that are passionate about what they do, and I believe that yes, stores and brands sometimes work on the corporate level and have the corporate stores, but the jewelry, independent jewelry stores, I think is here for a long time because it's all about this relationship. Like you have a baby, you go see this person to get a necklace, and then or a bracelet, sorry, or the necklace, or and then you have for each occasion you will go back to this person that you actually trust, you build a relationship with this person. And so coming back to your question about the industry, I think you know, like every industry, there is up and down, it's just what it is. Uh, but yeah, no, as long as you have first passionate people behind and then beautiful product that's coming as well, uh, yeah, I think it will if it will go well. Having worked at the swatch group, yeah, do you think this year we will see some collaborations like Omega Moon Swatch or Blank Pan 50 Fathoms? Do you think that there will be another collaboration from the swatch group? That I'm not sure, or at least I cannot say. Uh, but uh no, listen, in the end of the day, uh the uh, you know, the few collections that you mentioned, I think first it was an amazing marketing uh you know direction. It was a great communication. Uh, I was one of the first one, not in line, but actually interviewing people in line on front of the Etent Center in Toronto. Uh when the first watch, you know, at three o'clock in the morning. Uh so that was, and it's just it's just in the end of the day, it's always exciting to see excitement, to see other people excited about something, you know, about my about our industry, about something else, doesn't matter. As long as there is one thing that connects people, I just like it. You know, that's that's kind of what it is. So coming back to your question, I'm not sure. Uh I have few ideas, uh, but yeah, I don't have anything officially. Thomas, there's one last question I'd like to ask to uh every guest. Uh what is on your wrist today? So today I have a I have an Elka. Uh let me uh actually, you can have a look. Uh so Elka is actually a micro brand, and I'm very excited about it because uh funny story. Um, so Akeem, which is uh which is the owner of Elka Watches, uh, is a friend of mine, and actually I worked with him for 10 years with Hamilton, a Swatch Group. He was the head designer of the of Hamilton watches, and so I used to work with Swatch, he used to work with Hamilton, and then he finished uh he worked with Rado as well. And then at the same time that I launched my company, he also uh decided to uh launch Elka. And so being a micro brand, something that I realized as well is that in Europe, uh there is a lot of stores uh and a lot of uh micro brands that have a little bit of distribution. Micro brands they do a lot of uh direct-to-consumer, but they also have sorry, a lot of stores that have big brands and then some micro brands. Uh in North America is a little bit more about the big brands. So one thing that I try to do is I try to help uh micro brands potentially, or even brands that are somehow established but don't really have a big distribution. I try to help them get and introduce them to some retailers that potentially can uh sell them, or also potentially uh you know uh creating uh pop-up shock activity or things like that. That's something that I was actually very exciting when I when I saw uh last year, uh I think we both were the Toronto uh Time Peace Show. I was very excited about it to finally have this show. Uh Jason, which is the the founder, uh, created a very amazing get together. Uh very proud that Watch DNA is uh is a media partner, and actually we're going to be there in Vancouver as well in April. Uh so yeah, so that's so coming back to Elka. It's an amazing uh Hakim, which is the the owner, is an amazing guy. And and to be honest, the brand, I love it. It looks really nice. It looks really, really nice. I I wear this one very often. Actually, I have two of those, two uh two different LK, but I wear this one because of the beige, the natto band. I it's just very comfortable with on my wrist. Also, for our audience of the Timeless uh Catalyst, thanks to you and Hakim and also our colleagues at Jambijou. Uh, I will also do a review of the Elka watches, the X series as well. Uh it looks like a really cool watch. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. And uh yeah, I can't wait for everybody to uh discover the brand. Do you have any final uh maybe remarks for any new watch collector? Like how they can start or uh what they should pay attention to. Any kind of like uh advices for them? Yeah, yeah, no. Um yeah, sorry, I'm putting that because I feel naked. Um advice. You know something though is that what I love about watch DNN again, yes, it's mine, so maybe I'm not uh you know, it's kind of my baby, you know. But what I love is that we talk about all the brands. We don't talk about the brands that we sell because we don't sell, we really talk about brands from $50 to million dollars, right? And the idea answering your questions, you know, for some people $100 is a lot of money, and for some people, $50,000 is not a lot of money, right? So it really depends. So I will say for somebody, um somebody that's looking, um, it's just you know, the taste, comfortable, the budget, obviously is very is very important, you know. Uh the occasion, um that that's kind of what it is, you know. My my very first watch, if you ask me, uh I had a flick flak, you know, a long time ago. My parents bought me a flick flak. And then past years I moved to the states. I live in Seattle for two years. I was uh no-pair, a living nanny there, taking care of three boys, which I still have a great uh uh contact. And the family for Christmas, they bought me a swatch. And so that was my second of your so and the third one was actually a gift, also, and it was a Tissot. So I was like, oh, and now that you think about it, it's like I had the whole swatch group life, you know, through the through the edge. Uh, and then when I left, I I got myself an Omega as well when I left the swatch group, but that's a different story. So through the but I have all the brands as well from different groups. But coming back to your question, uh, yeah, no, it's really it's really about how you feel. Uh, if you feel comfortable, you know, I'm actually writing right now and I'm very excited for this project. It was a last-minute project that I had. Very soon we have uh International Women's Day, and that's actually one of the questions that I had that I had for you know the ladies that hopefully will contribute. And and something that I wanted to mention, why I'm mentioning that is that there is a lot of people, or even before, you know, you have you had this category of gender, right? For watches. But talking to a lot of different individuals, uh, women, men, you know, it doesn't matter their their their gender, uh, you know, they they will say, but I wear 36 mil, or I wear 45 mil, or I wear, you know, so actually if you look on watch DNA, we don't have this gender uh uh filter because everybody is free to to feel what they want and to you know to like what they what they want is nobody to judge, it's just themselves and you know, and so that's that's yeah. So what whatever feels comfortable with you and that you like and and make you feel, you know, make make you feel good with yourself. Also, maybe as a contribution to what you said, I think uh time uh watch collections, or I would say overall watch, it's always about the feeling that you are getting from the watch. It's not about the brand, the price you are paying, it's always about the feeling because time is so valuable. You need to have good feelings, you know, to keep the track of time. No, I yeah, no, I I agree. I agree. And the end of the day, you know, there's there's always the investment part, you know, for some individual. Uh it's just not my you know, for me is more about the feeling, and and and I I you know I wear my swatch watch sometimes that I still have, you know, after 25 years, and you know, and I like it, you know, it's just really depends. So yeah. Thomas, thank you so much once again for uh being with us on this episode. For our viewers, in the description, you will see the watch DNA website as well. Please guys follow them and read the articles and follow them on their social media uh and hope to see you again. Beautiful. Thank you so much for having me.